Hi everyone,
I have a question, I already googled it and mainly found personal opinions, so I was curious if somebody could give me an answer to my question in this forum?
- I ordered the Topping E30 which has one RCA out:
- I want to buy 2 RCA-splitters:
- my active sub is on the other side of the room and needs 2 pretty long RCA cables (left, right,10 metres)
- my active speakers will be close to the DAC, 2x RCA cables (left,right, 1,5 metres)
Generally speaking (but also including my coming setup), can I expect some loss in audio quality if RCA-splitters are used?
Looking forward to get some answers, thank you!
There is no quality loss whatsoever from a splitter, provided that the source can drive the impedance of the two destinations in parallel.
I can't find a spec for the minimum load the E30 will support, but I very much doubt it would be any less than 600 ohms, possibly even down to under 100 ohms with no degradation to performance.
That being the case, the load the E30 will see using the splitter cable will not be less than perhaps 5kohms, depending on the actual loads presented by the 'speakers and sub. I'm assuming no less than 10k in each case.
So, unless I'm wrong about my assumptions, you'll be fine using the splitter. 10m cable to the sub isn't particularly long, I'd use some well screened low capacitance cable like RG59 or RG6 which can be bought cheaply and is easy to terminate.
S.
Do your active speakers have line level or sub outputs? If so I would attach your subs through those connections vs a splitter. If not, consider a small external active crossover. DAC>x-over>a) active speakers b) subwoofer.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
It will work fine as long as the active speakers and sub are powered.
When one of the devices is turned off there could (but is not always the case) be some audible distortion.
bboris77
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It will work fine as long as the active speakers and sub are powered.
When one of the devices is turned off there could (but is not always the case) be some audible distortion.
I have often heard that this is a possibility, but have never been able to obtain a clear technical explanation of why this may be the case in certain types of situations. If you have the patience to try and explain the technical reasons for this, I (and many others) would be grateful.
Anecdotally, I have heard that it has something to do with certain types of amplifiers/receivers "shorting" their inputs when they are turned off whatever this means.
If this situation does occur, what level of distortion are we talking about? I have been running a Y-splitter from my EL DAC II between my headphone amplifier (EL AMP II) and my integrated amplifier (Yamaha A-S501) for a while now, and I would like to know if there is any potential for trouble.
- Thread Starter
- #6
Thank you guys, that's what I really appreciate in this forum, just precise and informative responses.
Do your active speakers have line level or sub outputs? If so I would attach your subs through those connections vs a splitter. If not, consider a small external active crossover. DAC>x-over>a) active speakers b) subwoofer.
They don't offer this kind of solution just balanced and unbalanced IN.
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I have often heard that this is a possibility, but have never been able to obtain a clear technical explanation of why this may be the case in certain types of situations. If you have the patience to try and explain the technical reasons for this, I (and many others) would be grateful.
(Video) Are Y connectors bad sounding?Anecdotally, I have heard that it has something to do with certain types of amplifiers/receivers "shorting" their inputs when they are turned off whatever this means.
If this situation does occur, what level of distortion are we talking about? I have been running a Y-splitter from my EL DAC II between my headphone amplifier (EL AMP II) and my integrated amplifier (Yamaha A-S501) for a while now, and I would like to know if there is any potential for trouble.
When power is switched off to a device, the input impedance is no longer what is was when powered. Also, the input impedance will most likely not be symmetrical to positive and negative going voltages, both because of any electrolytic input coupling capacitors, and because of semiconductor devices' junctions being reverse-biased with the 'wrong' polarity voltage.
This asymmetry in impedance will cause distortion as the input voltage goes up and down, which will be passed directly to any other powered devices in parallel. How much distortion depends on the output impedance of the source, and the specifics of the unpowered device.
S.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
I have often heard that this is a possibility, but have never been able to obtain a clear technical explanation of why this may be the case in certain types of situations. If you have the patience to try and explain the technical reasons for this, I (and many others) would be grateful.
Anecdotally, I have heard that it has something to do with certain types of amplifiers/receivers "shorting" their inputs when they are turned off whatever this means.
If this situation does occur, what level of distortion are we talking about? I have been running a Y-splitter from my EL DAC II between my headphone amplifier (EL AMP II) and my integrated amplifier (Yamaha A-S501) for a while now, and I would like to know if there is any potential for trouble.
It totally depends on the actual input circuit of the connected devices. When powered down the transistors or diodes that are not conducting when powered on will be conducting and thus act as diodes. There could be resistors in series with the input as well.
In case of te latter they act as a passive 'soft limiter'. This can be symmetric or asymmetric (both signal halves or only one signal half).
The voltage where diodes start working is 0.5V to 0.6V, when the input citcuit is an opamp with schottky diodes as protection it could be lower, in the 0.2V to 0.3V range.
Since a 2V output signal +/-2.8V it can clip the output. How severe this is depends on the output resistance of the source. The higher the resistance the worse the effect.
Edit: was typing the same ramblings as @sergeauckland at the same time...
- Thread Starter
- #9
Sorry, one more mini question. I already have the long RCA cable (for the sub) at home but I would have to buy new RCA cables for the active speakers.
I found those two cables in my old cable box:
Would it be okay to use it and plug it in the balanced IN of my active speakers (JBL LSR) (although the connection is not balanced) or is there a chance of damaging my speakers? Or would it be the better solution to just buy a new pair of "normal" RCA cables for the speakers?
bboris77
Senior Member
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Thank you for your quick responses! Practically speaking, is this a common or a rare issue when using modern DACs and amplifiers based on your own experience? I am wondering if anyone has actually measured this and published the results.
I am fairly sure that my type of setup as described in my previous post with an RCA Y-splitter between the headphone and speaker amp is not uncommon. I generally turn off whichever amplifier I am not using at any given time rather than simply turning down the volume on it.
I wish I could measure this input impedance of my amplifiers easily, but I have a feeling that it is not a simple matter.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
Measuring the input impedance of an amplifier generally is not easy. This is because active components, capacitors etc. can be in its path.
Both the output resistance of a source as well as the input resistance of devices should be measured using an AC signal and a resistor + some math.
Whether or not it is a problem depends. I don't think it is a common thing. As long as you don't hear distortion with one of the loads turned off it isn't a problem.
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solderdude
Grand Contributor
Sorry, one more mini question. I already have the long RCA cable (for the sub) at home but I would have to buy new RCA cables for the active speakers.
I found those two cables in my old cable box:
Would it be okay to use it and plug it in the balanced IN of my active speakers (JBL LSR) (although the connection is not balanced) or is there a chance of damaging my speakers? Or would it be the better solution to just buy a new pair of "normal" RCA cables for the speakers?
Using those cables from RCA out to balanced IN will not be an issue. Assuming pin 1 and 3 on the XLR both are connected to RCA shield.
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Measuring the input impedance of an amplifier generally is not easy. This is because active components, capacitors etc. can be in its path.
Both the output resistance of a source as well as the input resistance of devices should be measured using an AC signal and a resistor + some math.Whether or not it is a problem or not depends. I don't think it is a common thing. As long as you don't hear distortion with one of the loads turned off it isn't a problem.
Indeed. I see it more as 'good practice' not to have unpowered devices in parallel rather than a real problem. Having said that, whenever I've done it, it just bugs me that it could be introducing distortion I can't hear...
S.
Imho, it mostly makes so small a difference my golden ears have not been able to hear it if it did.
My system is passively vertically bi-amped using y adapters. I 've not been able to hear any difference between before and after after 3 tries.
So if a tree falls in the woods...
I have a question that goes along with this thread.
Attached drawing shows setup, easier to follow than my explaination probably.....
Coming out of my pre/pro which I use for both 2 channel and 5.1, there is the L/R RCA out that would go to my amplifier. I would like to split that output and have a Schiit SYS 2 RCA In, one out (essentially a switched Y) that would allow the signal path out one path or the other. My amp would have a Y cable, so there would be path A and path B. The switch would make it that only one path would be active at a time. Path A would go straight to the amp. Path B would allow me to go to an tube buffer (I know frowned upon) that would typically be shut off. That buffer output would go to the other Y and to the amp.
Since electronically the A path hitting the Y would be when active connected to the A Path of the switch for input and the B Path while switched off on the input side, the buffer's output (whether turned off or on) is going to be in parallel through the B of the Y, and thus could affect the signal from A to the amplifier.
Effectively, at least when the buffer is turned off, (there is no vampire power I am aware of but not sure), would that essentially make the B Path switched off both at the A/B Switch SYS, as well as the backend of the buffer attached to the B end of the Y. Yes/No?
Could this setup cause any concern for the health of my amp?
Could this setup cause any sound degredation of any realistically hearable proportion?
PS: You may pelt me for the buffer 
, as long as you please answer the other aspects as I doubt I will cause any issue to my equipment, but want to know if electronically from those with electronics knowledge what the affect would be in my specific situation before I go and do it. Really, the tube buffer is an experiment that may or may not last, but want to play with it for months and thus want something better than manually switching cables for different inputs.
Thanks!
Attachments
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I have sort of the inverse question
Theoretical scenario with one set of RCA inputs (powered speakers or amp)
Would it be better to use two of these splitter cables
or a switcher like this
to connect two devices to the one set of inputs?
Devices would be Schiit SYS (w/ two sources connected to it) and Topping BC3
So it's kind of the same question as OP except it's 2 devices (SYS and BC3) going in to 1 set of inputs (either active speakers or amp) instead of 1 device (E30) going in to 2 sets of inputs (active speakers and sub), but I don't know whether the considerations will be different or the same so I'm asking
FAQs
Do RCA Y splitters degrade audio? ›
There is no quality loss whatsoever from a splitter, provided that the source can drive the impedance of the two destinations in parallel.
Do splitters decrease audio quality? ›Splitters - as how they are called - basically splits an analogue sound signal into two without interfering the signal. But in some cases, the sound quality might actually reduce. This is caused by cheap materials. Cheaper materials means less quality.
Do RCA couplers affect sound quality? ›Do RCA cables affect sound quality? RCA cables do make a difference due to them being high-level signal cables that are analog. Due to this, they are susceptible to noise and interference and the only way to overcome this is to use high-quality RCA cables, keep them short, and away from other audio equipment.
What are RCA Y splitters used for? ›Audio Y Adapter Cables allow you to split a signal or adapt from one connection to another. Splitting Audio Signals: This adapter allows you to feed a stereo signal to two audio components, or for connecting a 4-channel car amplifier with one stereo patch cord (requires two adapters--one for each channel).
What does an audio Y splitter do? ›Plugging in a splitter will let you connect two pairs of headphones or earbuds. Or, you might be recording into one device but you'd like to send the audio to a backup recorder too. A splitter can help you do that.
How much does a splitter degrade signal? ›A splitter will have approximately 3.5 dB of loss on each port. TV signal splitters with more than two output ports are normally made up of multiple two-way splitters.
Do RCA splitters reduce volume? ›No, as volume is derived from input voltage where as a Y cable like that one spits current (not voltage) depending on input impedance of the two devices.
Does a cable splitter affect quality? ›A passive splitter reduces signal strength, and so generally degrades the signal to noise ratio, so yes, you're in for a reduction of quality there. An active splitter, which includes amplification, can address the loss of signal strength and with a digital signal you could wind up with basically no loss in quality.
Does cable splitter Quality Matter? ›Low quality coax splitters can adversely affect the video signal, causing excessive attenuation of the signal (signal loss) and multiple reflections which can cause ghosting (shadows on the picture).
Is RCA audio balanced? ›RCA audio cables are unbalanced analog audio connections that send stereo audio over a right channel (red tip) and left channel (white or black tip). An RCA unbalanced signal typically shouldn't run over 25 feet.
Why is XLR better than RCA? ›
Advantages of XLR over RCA
XLR connectors are a professional cable standard, so find more use in professional settings than RCA. They are a higher quality cable and deliver a balanced signal, making them far less susceptible to signal noise, attenuation, and crosstalk.
It's pretty safe to say that RCAs are in limited use for the average home user, mainly because of market shifts. However, RCA audio quality is still phenomenal. If you still have a device that uses this connection, hook it up and see for yourself!
What are Y connectors used for? ›Guiding Y Connector: Y shape connector device is used for inserting a catheter guide wire into a blood vessel .
What does a Y connector do? ›The “Y” Connector has a one-way valve and plug. It is used to connect two 22 mm tubes to a mouthpiece, face mask or bacteria filter.
For what usage are Y cables recommended? ›A Y cable is used when there is one signal that must go to two different places. For example, when you have one 1/4-inch TRS headphone output and you want two people to listen to the same thing on their own headphones with 3.5 mm connectors.
Is it OK to use a headphone splitter? ›A headphone splitter for microphones can be used if you require more than one microphone. A headphone splitter converts one pair of headphones into two microphones that may both be plugged in at the same time.
Does a splitter affect mic quality? ›Various types of microphones will be affected in different ways by a splitter system. The most noticeable degradation occurs with dynamic microphones, although all other types will suffer degradation to some degree.
Does an Ethernet splitter reduce quality? ›To answer, no, the splitters will not slow down the connection if utilized in a 100Mbps network. However, if your router can deliver 1Gbps and you put a splitter in the middle, the bandwidth will be limited to 100Mbps.
What is the dB loss in a 8-way splitter? ›An 8-way splitter is designed to equally divide the signals from the input port to eight output ports. In this case, 12.5% of the input power is on each of the output ports. In terms of dB loss, this results in approximately 11 dB of loss between the input port and each output port.
Does an aerial splitter weaken the signal? ›Aerial splitters will weaken your signal. However in reasonable signal strength areas your TV can cope with this loss OK, particularly if only splitting the signal twice. Thus, unless you live in a known poor signal area, we recommend trying a splitter before you try an amplifier / booster.
How much signal does a balanced 3 way splitter lose? ›
A balanced 3-way splitter is designed to equally divide the signals from the input port to three output ports. In terms of dB loss, this results in approximately 6.0 dB of loss between the input port and each output port.
Is it OK to split RCA? ›If the input impedance of the two devices isn't too low (say at least 10 kohms each), and having the same signal level on both is okay shouldn't be a problem.
Is it better to use RCA or high level input? ›Another advantage of high level inputs is that the cost is usually much cheaper. RCA cables can be expensive, especially if you need to make long runs. Speaker wire is relatively cheap and although certain amplifiers need adapters, running the speaker wire is much easier and less bulky than RCA cables.
Is RCA higher quality than 3.5 mm? ›RCA has better crosstalk performance, but it's not audible in the vast majority of cases.
How can I improve my cable signal quality? ›- Install Your Aerial Outside. ...
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Coax splitters are used to take a single video feed and branch it off into multiple places. They normally are configured in pairs of 2 output configurations such as 2,4, or 6, sometimes with an odd 3 output feature. They are ideally meant to maintain proper input and output environments.
Do splitters reduce bandwidth? ›Cable splitter only reduces signal strength. It won't affect the internet speed.
Are all audio splitters the same? ›There are dual as well as multi splitters available in the market. Based on the usage and number of persons using the device finalize the type of splitter.
How are coax splitters rated? ›Coax splitters can be rated for different Radio Frequency (RF) ratings, measured in MegaHertz (MHz). The MHz range on the splitter determines whether it can be used for antenna, satellite, or both. Antenna signals run from 5 - 900 MHz. Satellite signals run from 950 - 2350 MHz.
How many times can you split coax? ›Use a splitter with as few connections as possible (two way splitters will typically have the least signal loss). Try not to daisy chain splitters (splitter attached to a splitter). If you need more ports, a four-way splitter is better than 3 two-way splitters. I've seen splitters with as many as 16 ports.
Does RCA sound better than XLR? ›
Our many years of experience is that there are source system components, whether they be CD players or AV Pre-amplifiers where the XLR connection produces a better sound than the RCA connection. There are also system source components where the opposite is true, producing a better sound from the RCA connection.
Does balanced sound better than RCA? ›XLR cables are usually balanced (3 pin) and RCA cables are unbalanced (1 pin). The main benefit of balanced cables is their ability to transfer sound signals over much longer runs/distances without signal loss, or interference.
Can you hear the difference between balanced and unbalanced audio? ›A lot of people wonder whether or not it's possible to hear the difference between a balanced and unbalanced audio signal, and whether or not balanced output hardware really makes a difference. Truth be told, it does.
Is it OK to use XLR to RCA cable? ›Equipment that only has RCA sockets can be connected to equipment that only has XLR sockets. This is done by connecting the signal from the centre pin of the RCA plug to the hot pin of the XLR, and the earth to the earth pin. It is also possible to produce XLR to RCA cables in the same manner.
Do longer XLR cables sound worse? ›Type of Cable
Balanced cables correct distortion and noise, so length won't affect them as much as unbalanced mono cables. The most common balanced cables are XLR cables, followed by TRS cables. Because balanced connections are designed to eliminate noise and interference, they can theoretically be of any length.
XLR cables are balanced audio cables, while RCA cables are unbalanced. This means that XLR is better for long distances, high outputs, and noisy environments. RCA cables can be better for short distances, and they are cheaper, but as a general rule, XLR cables are better audio cables than RCA.
Do coaxial splitters degrade signal? ›A splitter weakens the signal level, which can cause intermittent loss of service or, in rare cases, service failure. We recommend connecting your modem or Spectrum receiver directly to a wall outlet rather than using a splitter.
Do long RCA cables degrade sound? ›Yes, cable length does matter when it comes to sound quality, and it is something you will need to consider. However, the extent to which this is true varies from situation to situation. The good news is the cables you already have are probably fine even if they are long.